Update, 4/08: I’m afraid NetWinner’s days may be numbered; I no longer recommend this program. Please see these updates: April 29, April 27, April 17, April 11.
I’ve heard a lot of complaints about the NetWinner program lately, on the forums and by email, and because it’s one of the programs I review here on CompareRewards, I decided to look into this. I submitted a support request on the site on Sunday and asked for someone at NetWinner to provide their side of the story. I was immediately emailed by Matt Coapman, one of the site’s founders and their VP of Business Development, who set up a phone call to discuss my concerns.
On Monday I spoke with Mr. Coapman at length about the complaints I’ve been hearing about NetWinner and about the site’s future. I found him to be very polite, informative, and quite patient with my many questions (some of which were pretty pointed). I was impressed with his openness, and his enthusiasm about the site is pretty contagious.
When typing up my notes about the conversation (which I won’t call an “interview,” because I’m not quoting him exactly), I had some follow-up questions which NetWinner’s Director of Communications Steve Goldberg was gracious enough to address by email yesterday. Big thanks go out to Matt Coapman and Steve Goldberg for taking the time out of their busy schedules to talk with me about their program.
Click “Continue Reading…” for the summary of my conversations with NetWinner!
——————————
About Redemptions:
Mr. Coapman says that NetWinner redemptions are current through October 1 (at least, those with redemption requests prior to that date have been submitted in batch to be paid by Ecount). NetWinner’s terms of service says to allow 90 days for payment. The Ecount GCs were put in place for a couple of reasons. For one, they address a problem some people were having with snail-mailed gift cards going missing (presumably being stolen). The initial Ecount redemption involves a physical card being mailed to the member’s home, Mr. Goldberg explained, but subsequent Ecount redemptions will be in the form of a credit to the card’s account. Another reason for the switch to Ecount is that NW has grown in size and that they were able to contract out with Ecount to handle their redemptions, streamlining the process and freeing up NetWinner’s staff from having to deal with redemptions.
The current redemption delay is “birthing pains” related to setting up the new system with Ecount. Redemptions are sent in batches of 5 to 6,000 a day, and the members’ addresses have to be “qualified” or verified as being valid US mailing addresses before the physical Ecount card is sent out. Because a member’s future Ecount redemptions are done electronically as a credit to their account, presumably the member would be paid faster. “We are always looking to improve the turnaround times and any questions regarding receipt of the cards or redemption credits should be made to NetWinner,” as opposed to Ecount, Mr. Goldberg said.
As an aside, Mr. Coapman said that NW is one of the largest Ecount accounts of this type (prize fulfillment); it’s mostly used as an employee incentive reward.
The other redemption available to members is the raffle entries. Mr. Coapman said that many people don’t have the “10 to 12 hours” of playing time it takes to reach 25,000 points and cash out. For them, NW is offering the opportunity to cash out for drawing entries for bigger prizes. This is just an additional option to the Ecount gift cards, really aimed toward more casual players and not the die-hard use-every-play-daily members.
I told him that I was hearing people were leery of using Ecount, because of privacy concerns, because they just don’t shop online, they don’t understand how it works, etc. He said that members didn’t need to worry about the privacy thing as far as their info with NW was concerned — the only thing Ecount gets from NW is the member’s name and address, which are required for them to issue the Ecount card. He said he realized that some people liked having a physical GC because, for instance, they gave them as gifts. I pointed out that there are some merchants that sell gift cards online and offer free shipping — they could use their Ecount credit to buy physical GCs and have them mailed free. I asked if there was an initiative in place to educate members about this sort of things and he said that was what the forum was for.
Is bringing back the physical, mailed GCs a possibility, maybe even for a higher cost in points? No, said Mr. Coapman. The switch to Ecount was really necessary to keep up with redemptions on the kind of scale NetWinner’s doing business, reducing the resources required to mail out gift cards and investigate reports of missing cards.
About the Forum:
There are multiple moderators who report to Mike, the head mod. Mike sends a daily summary of complaints and general themes of discussions in the forum to the two (just two!) support people. I’m unclear about what happens from there. I would assume the support people would take any ongoing concerns to the program’s administration, but I can’t confirm that that’s the procedure.
Mr. Goldberg had some interesting things to say about the forum moderators. Quoting from his email, “While they do interact with our players, they do not speak on behalf of the company in any official capacity. Think of them as our team captains, representing more the players than the company.” Their responsibility, he said, was to provide the company with feedback from the members.
Mr. Coapman said that he felt that they (NetWinner administration) could do a better job than they are now with internally communicating information to their moderators to pass on to members.
Forum moderators have the ability to freeze posts, he said, and one (I think that’s Mike) has the ability to award bonus points to members, but they do NOT have the ability to lock member accounts. He said there were only two people who could do that: him, and the lady in fulfillment. I asked him this specifically, does complaining about NW in the forum get your account locked? He laughed and said, “No, we’re not like the Gestapo or anything!” He reiterated that the mods don’t have the power to do that. He said members were welcome to talk about NW anywhere on the ‘net. NW wants to keep the forum family-friendly, and that foul langage wasn’t permitted. But as long as the discussion stays civil, concerns and complaints are permitted on the forum.
Mr. Coapman also said, and I thought this was interesting, that the forum was NOT the best place to bring up complaints. He said that the best way to get complaints addressed is in an email to the support folks. He said that the two support people handled between 300 and 500 emails a day, and that because of time constraints, sometimes they had to prioritize and that a “the game didn’t pay me the 10 points I won” type emails didn’t get as high a priority as “I didn’t get paid” kind of mails.
Fighting Fraud:
Fraud is a problem, but they’re working on it, Mr. Coapman said. Mr. Goldberg said that NetWinner is “committed to aggressively tracking and eliminating any attempts at fraud in order to protect the integrity of the site and the experience for the vast majority of players who participate fairly. These are the individuals who deserve to play and win and we will continue to do everything in our power to defend their ability to do so.”
Some things NW does to combat fraud include examining IP addresses and home addresses. They are currently testing a change that will require members to verify their account before playing the game. Mr. Coapman said it should be live in the next two weeks He hopes that this will help weed out some cheaters (specifically, people creating fake referrals), and it will also help address complaints about the prior system that didn’t credit legitimate referrers until their referrals confirmed their email address. Why didn’t they require new members to verify email before playing all along? He said it was to keep a new member’s “barrier to entry small” — meaning to make it easy for new people to play the game immediately and see how addictive it is. But they realize this has created problems so they are in the process of changing it.
Mr. Coapman said that the two support people I mentioned above responsible not only for handling support requests, but they’re also responsible for finding cheaters. Some people sign up 300 different referrals, and you can see from the “degrees of separation” (looking at who referred who) that the accounts are all related to one another. These guys, who want to get paid for their fake accounts, are some of the vocal complainers (not all, they realize!). So, sometimes just being a belligerent complainer with a lot of referrals sends up a red flag that the member’s account should be checked for fraud. So when you hear, “I complained about not getting paid to the support people and got my account frozen,” it’s more than likely because when Support investigated, they found something fishy and they asked the lady in charge of Fulfillment to freeze the account.
Another form of cheating they’ve had to deal with includes people who have written scripts, or bots, to do the clicking for them. People also were opening multiple windows to play Banko on different websites at one time. These things violate NW’s Terms of Service (TOS). They found out because, well, Banko’s a 5 minute-long game, and people were winning every 20 seconds. How else could they do that if they weren’t playing in multiple windows? This is bad for NetWinner because it causes a dramatic drop in their ads’ click-through rates (hurting their relationship, and earnings, with advertisers).
One thing some players may not be aware of is that ad blockers (for instance, a modified “hosts” file that keeps ads from displaying on your screen) are against the program’s Terms of Service. Mr. Goldberg said that, “The advertisements and other video content are an important part of the NetWinner experience and are integral to keeping it free to play.”
A last form of fraud NetWinner’s had to contend with involved its affiliate program. Until recently, NW offered a $1.50 incentive for webmasters to bring in new NW members. They found out, unfortunately, that some webmasters were abusing the system, bringing in fake members in order to get the buck-fifty. As a result, they had to shut down their affiliate program and concentrate instead on the AdverGame Network.
About the AdverGame Network – Playing NetWinner’s Games on Other Websites:
The AdverGame Network allows other websites to offer Banko and MoneyWheel. When the program first went live, NW members could play 100 times a day on each website. There are around 75 websites that feature the off-site Banko, and there were some diehard NetWinner members who racked up 5000 to 7500 plays a day maxing out their plays on all AdverGame partner sites. That was a problem, Mr. Coapland said. One issue was the cheating, as mentioned above — people playing multiple games at once in different windows. They don’t view or click through the ads that way, which is how NW generates revenue to be able to send out rewards. Another issue is that NetWinner just doesn’t have the inventory of ads to keep up with that many plays per day. As a result, off-site plays are now tied to an individual member’s NW account, and once again, members are limited to 100 TOTAL plays per day.
Why would a website want to offer NetWinner’s games? Because they get a cut of the ad revenue for visitors playing on their website. Why would NetWinner want to give up part of their ad revenue? In order to bring in new members. So this is a profitable deal for both the webmaster and NetWinner. And while current NetWinner members CAN use part of their total daily plays by playing on another website, they need to be aware that this creates less profit for NW because they’re sharing it with the partner website.
Does NetWinner Stack the Odds?
I had read some interesting posts that suggested that NetWinner games were not as random as their TOS would lead you to believe. I asked Mr. Coapman about something I’d read about how the Flash source code had been analyzed and found to be NOT truly random, and that the odds could be changed at will by administrators. He said that he had heard the conspiracy theories and this just wasn’t true. He said hey, I’m one of the founders, I would know. He said the only thing they change is the multipliers; for instance at Christmas when they had a lot of ads/revenue, they added multipliers. Otherwise, it really was random, he assured me.
What about the problems I’d read that people had had with Banko — people wanted to stop when they won at a lower level, rather than continuing on and getting more numbers, but the popup didn’t come up to allow them to accept the lower-level prize. He said it was probably a glitch when the game was first introduced, that WAS why they had called it “Beta,” and that he thought all that had been ironed out now.
Do the Changes Mean NetWinner is Declining?
Mr. Coapman said that the changes to the program were to bring NetWinner a broader audience and to help weed out rampant fraud. He said the program was growing, which necessitated the switch to Ecount to streamline reward fulfillment. And he summed it all up by saying we’re not going anywhere, we’re doing everything we’ve said we would, we’re still not charging for membership, we’re tweaking things and making changes to broaden the model, and we’re here to stay — NetWinner plans to be around for a long time.
Mr. Goldberg said in his email that, “There is one overriding sentiment that we at NetWinner would like to make clear. Whenever we meet, whenever any decision is being made regarding any subject from the game play to rewards and redemption to partnerships, the one thing that is always mentioned is, ‘How will this improve the overall experience for the broadest cross-section of our players?’ Every one who comes to our site(s) is important to us. The mission here at NetWinner is to create and continually improve the fun and engagement of our games and every other facet of our consumer relationship. As such, things will change (e.g., the introduction of prize drawings) but always with the objective of making it a better experience for the majority of our players.”
My Take On It:
I found both Mr. Coapman and Mr. Goldberg to be VERY open about where NetWinner was and where they wanted to be. Mr. Coapman said that he was aware of the complaints that people were making about the program, and I felt that he was honest and thorough in the way he addressed them. He spent a lot of time talking to me and didn’t try to dodge the issues or cut me short. Mr. Goldberg responded thoughtfully to my follow-up email, taking the time to check out CompareRewards.com first in order to get a feel for the kind of audience who would be reading this. I got the impression that, despite some concern to the contrary, NetWinner does care about their members and their perception of their program.
I understand that long-time members may be unhappy about game limits and the removal of mailed GCs, but Mr. Coapman gave sound business justification for these changes. Sometimes there are growing pains as a program goes from being a smaller company to being a big one and they’ll have to tweak things. An extreme example: if a program only had two members, you’d get GREAT personal attention and you’d probably get your reward the day you cashed out… but what advertiser would want to do business with a company that only had two members? Being bigger makes them more attractive to advertisers, but it does limit the company’s ability to give you fast support answers and fast delivery of rewards. NetWinner is taking some steps to improve this, by adding Ecount which, in theory, can be delivered faster. But I feel they could do more, by adding more support staff to help answer member questions and problems. Members need to feel valued, and automated replies (or no replies at all) don’t convey that at all.
Some member assistance is available via the forum, but the moderators there can not be assumed to voice the opinions of NetWinner. I do feel that one big opportunity for improvement would be better communication between the program’s administration and its forum moderators. I hope that they work on this. Administration needs to realize that, to the average member, the forum mods ARE NetWinner. They represent NW in their words and actions just by virtue of their position as a moderator…and, based on widespread complaints I’m hearing, perhaps the mods themselves could use a little moderation. 
It sounds like Ecount and game limits are necessary sacrifices for the program to continue to grow and be able to attract advertisers to pay for rewards. Perhaps as the program expands, game limits will increase and physical GCs will return…but this will only happen with the continued support of NetWinner’s existing membership base.
Current NetWinner members who want to help support NW should be aware that ad revenue is shared with partner websites if they play off-site. They can maximize NetWinner’s revenue by only playing on the main NW website.
When Mr. Coapman asked if I wanted to offer NetWinner’s games on CompareRewards, I said no. There are too many negative vibes right now about the program, and that I was concerned the bad juju would taint my site’s reputation by association. When they get these issues addressed and regain the confidence of their members, it is something I’d consider.
If you’re a NetWinner member and you’d like to comment, I’d be happy to hear your response to this. Please don’t shoot the messenger — I’m just relaying the information I was given, and I don’t use NW enough to have the personal experience with which to fully grade the quality of their responses. You diehard NW players do, and I’d love to hear from you.
I appreciate your reading this and hope it helps answer some concerns that you may have had. If you’re not a member and would like to join NetWinner, please click here [referral link removed as of 4/08 -- I no longer recommend this program. Please click here and here for an update.]
{ 41 comments }
This isn’t related to this particular post but I was curious if you have an estimate of how much money you have earned from reward sites and which are you favorite sites. Maybe this could be your next post?
First of all i want to add a well done on the information that you provided. The main thing that bothers me is when i received a message stating that my computer had a number of people entering the same site. No way in hell this happened. No one has my access to my laptop nor any of the information to access it. I am the only member in my household so unless my adorable but computer illiterate dog has picked up the habit, it isn’t happening. She is the only other living breathing almost human in my household. Plus i am not that up-to-date on anything close to cheating, never have and to old to start now. So let the powers that be, where ever they may be, figure out this one and get back to me. I do not take being labeled or called a cheater lightly. Thanks for listening or reading my rant. I guess my old fashioned morals and values are just like myself, old and out of date.
As a Forum Moderator for Netwinner I want to say this
Every Mod should take a week vacation at the same time and have the Netwinner Staff run the forum, Support, Chat, & Contests and I guarantee they would respect us more then what this article shows.
Nevermind the forum would Blow up !!! LOL
I agree with you about mods taking a vacation, I am Winners circle mod and the whole team we work hard to make Netwinner a #1 site. Everyone of us look out for the company and the players working in support for 3 day shifts is just a small part of what we do.
Thank you for providing the information from the interview. I read it with great interest as I’ve been a member for over a year and have been concerned about the length of time it takes to receive redemptions. I would like to point out that, unless they’ve recently changed it then the TOS has stated 60 days, not 90 days as was posted above.
Cheaters have always been a major concern for many of these kinds of sites, most notably the Paid-to-Read ones. In fact, it has been one factor which has contributed to the downfall of hundreds, perhaps even thousands of sites over the past several years. Other factors include the mismanagement of funds in addition to unsustainable revenue-generating decisions. The referal structure allowed certain sites to become “top-heavy” which means that those with large downlines continueously drained the resouces. In turn, those average, everyday members were told to wait for payouts month after month. Eventually, many sites collapsed leaving thousands of members with absolutely nothing to show for their time.
As far as I can tell, some of the Banko errors still occur such as winnings that fail to credit and disconnections from computers using high-speed internet or broadband. When asked how long NW would be in Beta-testing, and when suggesting that unless there was a time-table involved then NW could conceivably use that as an excuse for years, I was treated harshly and rudely. When members ask about this, they are told repeatedly that the technicians are working hard on getting the glitches fixed. That’s fine but is there an estimate on how long it will take? Weeks? Months? Years?
Many times I’ve attempted to voice my concerns at the forum but even writing in a civilized manner, I have been in fear of my account being deleted.
Oftentimes I have felt trapped in some kind of payout Twilight Zone especially with this new ECount MC where fees are charged for inactivity. If a member is unable to keep the cash flow going then it will cost them $3.00 in fees. That’s 3,000 points and points take awhile to build. With the game play limits reduced and the length of time for payouts, it could become a huge problem when members begin to lose winnings due to being unable to use their card.
To sum it up, I hope the best for Netwinner and its members but I have legitimate concerns.
i think netwinner is great!
way too slow on prizes now, but i
understand why.
about the cheating: i worry about
my cousin who signed up under me.
she plays from everywhere she is,
my house too. i don’t want to get into
trouble for that.the IP thing. i see
so many people who have been accused of
cheating,it scares me. i have told her
not to play on my computer, then there
she is signed in and playing here again!
but i still love netwinner, i am a diehard.
does this mean for the ecount raffle drawing that i will ahve to wait 90 days now to get it because i recived an email telling me i would recive it in 60 days this in regards to the 500 dollar ecount raffle drwing
I think after reading all the comments above i have to agree that with regards to the forum you’re right on the money. The mod, shelly tends to be rude to the point of nastiness,and there a a few others who really could use some training on dealing with others. Perhaps netwinner should look more closely at some of their moderators. I still plan to continue playing and hope the site fares well
the comp IP does make you wonder how this will stop cheating when they allow multile accounts for the same household…since the limit my husband started playing on his account now that im not on the comp all the time and my mom has also played on my comp on her account. it was never at the same time and i only have one computer so how will the IP affect the ones with legit multi accounts in the same household without being punished for cheating??
Thanks so much for doing this “interview”, it was very informative. I for one stopped playing Netwinner because of Mike. I thought he was the one running Netwinner and I refused to have anything to do with a company that was so nasty. Now that I know it is not his company I may have to revisit. I do understand the Mods take the brunt of all the criticism and for the most part they are wonderful, but a few ruin the reputations for them all. Those few may be ruining Netwinner for more people than they realize. Thanks again for taking the time to get so many answers!!
Thank you for providing an indeph look at how NetWinner works. This is not intented to be critism but Banko glitches are far from ironed out. Infact the longer I play it the more the glitches get worse. I don’t read of anyone else having problems with itm so was just wondering is it just me?
Thank you
its pretty clear to most players that “gltiches” are a part of controlling wins, not problems in the software. maybe if they would just be honest and say, the moneys not here people would just go on and stop worring themselfs about this site. if its to good to be true it probably is, and lest face it nothin in real life is free.
i give them credit it was a really good scam
there not gltiches, its how they control the wins. why don’t they just be honest and end this scam. they got in over their heads and now they can’t pay people.
I still do not see anyone giving any straight answers with regard to pay outs. It appears the payout fulfillment rate is that it takes 3 weeks to process 1 weeks worth of cash outs. When you factor in the fact that they are right now processing cash outs from the first week of October, they are still some 5 months behind. And for most of these players the TOS at the time of their cash outs was 30 days not 90. They keep pushing back to TOS instead of catching up on their grossly overdue payments.
I think a follow-up interview would be in keeping with the inconsistencies mentioned both here and at the NW forum. Its interesting to note that many of the exact same warning signs appeared during the demise of hundreds of similarly structured payout programs over the past few years.
Revenue decreased or was mismanaged, fraud and cheating was blamed leading to blanket changes being implemented, terms of service was changed repeatedly, disgruntled members were harassed and punished, members were bombarded with obvious stall tactics and finally just before closing, memos would go out blaming members for not being cooperative, for not participating and for not being supportive.
way back when, in feb. of 07, i was banned then my husband was baned. we did not cheat or use bots. we actually sat down at this computer and played. maybe played to much, who knows….of course you get no answer as to why you were banned, or suspened. i did write them to as what might have gone wrong, no answer… i have seen that other players have had accounts suspended and revived again AND MINE OR HUSBANDS NEVER WAS. WAS IT BECAUSE I BITCHED. WAS IT BECAUSE I CALLED MJP OUT WHEN HE WAS BEING SNARKY WAY BACK THEN? WHO KNOWS. This interview says mjp does not delete accounts. according to mjp he does 300 in one day. just read his reports in HIS forums, its not hard to access. He does brag about it. With this game having so many problems I thought it was the game itself that got us banned Then i reaad about people saying the window did not close when going from one site to another yhis makes me wonder about the site itself. Thus you have an error with two windows open…. SO YOU GET BANNED AND WILL NOT GET WHAT YOU EARNED IF NETWINNER REALLY WANTS TO BE THE FORWARD LOOKING COMPANY THEY PROPORT TO BE THEY SHOULD HIRE MORE PEOPLE AND GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING AND FIRE MIKE THAT WOULD BE A BIG FIRST, HE IS NOTHING BUT AN ASS,, CHECK OUT BOBT..NOT REALLY SURE IF HIS SCREEN NAME BUT HE IS NOW A MODERATOR,BY THE WAY HE WAS BANNED ALSO, BUT HE GOT HIS ACCOUNT BACK IMMEDIATLY. wHY? WHO KNOWS, HE WAS AND STILL IS A BIGGIE IN THE CHAT ROOM. BY THE AY WHERE IS OSCAR? HE HAS NOT BEEN HEARD OF SINCE THE MY COUPONS BOARD WHERE YOU COULD HAVE YOUR ACCOUNT LOOKED INTO AS TO WHY YOU WERE BANNED. WAS HE BANNED TO OR DID HE FIND OUT THE BULL SH’T GOING ON AT NETWINNER. YOU BANNED MY HUSBAND AND MYSELF AND SAVED YOURSELVES MAYBE A 50 AND ANOTHER 25 GIFT CARD FROM WALMART. THATS HOW LONG AGO IT WAS. MY OPINION IS THAT I WAS PAID SOME AND WHEN I PLAYED ALL DAY THEY THOUGHT I WAS A BOT PLAYING. I ASKED THEM TO CONSIDER THAT THEIR PROGRAM WAS AT FAULT BUT OF COURSE THERE WAS NEVER AN ANSWER. I HAVE BEEN OUT OF NETWINNER SINCE FEB. OF 2007. I BELIEVE. BUT I CHECK IN EVERY SO OFTEN TO SEE WHATS GOING ON.. BIG LAUGH TO ME ITS STILL THE SAME.. LONG.LONG LONG PAYOUTS,MIKE STILL SHUTTING DOWN ACCOUNTS NO REASONS GIVEN.. PRIZES REALLY SUCK. WHY BOTHER TO SPEND TIME HERE?
Could you do a follow up interview? It seems like NW is actually falling more behind in prize fulfillment.
I would love for a truthful answer from Netwinner, as opposed to the clearly planned out responses the author was given.
More redderick from the new Netwinner Blog
“By leveraging Ecount’s experience and proprietary prepaid technology, the free-to-play NetWinner is moving ahead in building its unique brand while taking advantage of a more immediate and economical payment delivery system that will benefit its growing legion of game players.
“NetWinner, like many of our clients, relies on providing a popular and convenient reward for customer acquisition,” stated Matt Gillin, CEO of Ecount. “By offering their audience a cash reward, immediately delivered on a prepaid card, our clients are able to provide the optimal user experience. Merging NetWinner’s technology with Ecount’s Prepaid Solution provides a sophisticated program that can be rapidly fulfilled and scaled as they continue to grow and capture the market.”
immediate payments?
“The current redemption delay is “birthing pains” related to setting up the new system with Ecount.”
“Because a member’s future Ecount redemptions are done electronically as a credit to their account, presumably the member would be paid faster”
People have been receiving their card for a couple of months now but redemptions are definitely not coming out faster. After all this time redemptions are still 4-6 months behind. What next a TOS with 6 month redemptions?
Last night on Banko I hit a “bingo” at the $10,000 mark. It didn’t even blink. No register. I took a screen print with SnagIt. I emailed Netwinner. Here is the reply I got:Dear Netwinner User,
Thank you for playing at Netwinner, the internet’s fastest growing game site that really pays! We strive to answer your questions in a timely manner and we appreciate your patience as we progress through our beta phase and beyond.
It has been reported and we apologize for this, but the technical staff are working to get this corrected on the game as soon as possible.
The technical staff have been aware of certain glitches with the game at this time and are working to correct them as soon as possible. If you do not have the prize in your messages, then you know it will not be a real win. Again, we do apologize for this misunderstanding in our game and they are working to correct it.
We appreciate your concerns and thank you for playing on Netwinner.com. We ask for your patience as we move through our beta phases at this time.
Best Regards,
NetWinner Support Staff
If they aren’t going to pay a $10,000 win they should take it out of contention.
As if things on the netwinner forum couldn’t get worse, rumor has it that the mod known as shelly becomes part of the staff. Another huge mistake for netwinner. I will say though it seems they are progressing finally on payments…one step forward, two steps back
i have read your review of netwinner and found it to be very untrue. i have been a member there for over 1 year and have been waiting on my prizes to be fulfilled for over 5 months now. when you ask about the delay you are told to send a email to fulfillment@netwinner.com and in a day or two you get a auto response saying they are sorry for the delay. i was just reading in the forums tonight that they are processing out of order. people that have been waiting since october are still waiting yet people that have the same card or prize have already gotten theirs from november. it seems to me that netwinner is not paying as they would try and lead people to believe. i do know that if this site continues the way it is going there will be nothing in its future but maybe people starting a class action suit against them. in the year that i have been a member i have never received not one of the prizes i cashed in fo within the time period that they state in their t.o.s. so the comment about it being delayed due to move is not true. they are justy not doing what it would take to meet their deadline for fulfillment. how can a company that has well over 150,000 members expect to have three people process that volume. from what i found on the better business bureau that is how many people there are that work there. perhaps the author of this post could instead of going by word of mouth go open an account. play for about 3-4 month because that is about how long it will take to get the 25,000 points to cash in for $25 gift card then wait 5-6 months to see if they ever get the card. i would bet my life if the site does not know who you are you will be treated the same way. as for the treatment of the player by mods i have seen some very poor treatment. people that cashed out last year 4-5 months before christmas who had planned to use the cards for christmas was told ” that they were pretty sad if they had to depend on a game site to buy presents for their kids” i would say as far as pr that has to be one of the worst comments i have ever seen made to another person. my heart about dropped when i read that. i do not think anyone tries to make a living on this site but i know if i budget for money and that money does not come through the last thing i want to hear is that i have to be a bad parent because i planned on useing it for christmas presents. so i urge the you to take a walk around talk to people dont let them know who you are and see if you can see how the site truly is. of course the person who owns the company is going to tell you everything is great and working as expected with only a few minor glitches but that is not true they have MAJOR glitches that they do not address
they say that mods can not ban accounts here is a email i got from mike because my self and one of the other mods did not see eye to eye on a matter of feeding children
Mr. Bragg,
I have seen some of your behavior and it is not appropriate. It is
also
not a super big deal at this point.
I have no problem with removing the restrictions, but you have to
behave
more civilly. I did get one mail from you about this, but I am very
busy.
I have faith in womanfish, but I am fair, and I will listen to all
sides.
Just steer clear of her and treat everybody with respect for now. I
dont
have time to micro manage the community so I need my volunteer team to
keep things running.
The chat ban and profile suspension are small potatos. I am willing to
remove these if your actions warrant it. On the other side of the
coin,
the next step is freezing the entire Netwinner account. I never like
banning players. Let’s hope I do not have to do it here.
Feel free to contact me as needed.
mike
ASmith
I am not A staff member for netwinner, I am a forum administrator
That is 2 different things and I dont know who told you that but there information is completely false.
I dont care about what you think of me but please if your ganna make statments about me on this site Please get your facts straight before doing so. Its not right to tell players that I am employed by netwinner when its not true.
Shelly021105
Forum Adminstator
seems that mike from netwinner can speak for netwinner as per this email from him today about my 2 previous osts.
From Mike paluch Mon Mar 24 09:42:02 2008
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Carlton,
You should seek professional help.
I was going to send you an update about your prizes but I see you have been busy.
If you do not stop slandering and committing liable against Netwinner, our players and our staff I will ban you from the the site. I will give you until the end of the day to remove all of the slanderous and libelous content you have posted around the net. If it remains at 5pm EST, your account will be terminated. I will may also be taking additional actions related to your malicious actions.
mike
If a person or business is threatening to bring a libel suit against an individual, they may wish to read up on it first. According to the definition of libel at Wikipedia;
“Even if a statement is derogatory, there are circumstances in which such statements are permissible in law.”
And;
…”In order to win damages in a libel case, the plaintiff must first show that the statements were ‘statements of fact or mixed statements of opinion and fact’ and second that these statements were false.”
Is Netwinner confident they can prove this person’s alleged derogatory statements are false? If a company wants to be recognized as aboveboard they must earn that priviledge. They cannot dishonor their own policies and then expect the public to bow down, kowtow, remain silent or otherwise refrain from providing others with pertinent information which serves as a warning. The public has every right to submit true statements to others in order to prevent them from falling victim to the same disfavorable circumstances. As well, the public should not tolerate threats such as these for the sole purpose of stifling members who are caught up in the current payout horror.
here is proof that the site does not want anyone telling the truth about the site. so in my opinion the site will not pay out as stated in their tos. i will admit that they did pay $125 out of $500 so i guess that is pretty good you have a 25% chance of getting paid.
p.s. i am sure that if you say nothing about the site and keep quiet you will get paid sooner or later but for me the promise of money is not that important. i would rather spend my time at a site that will only pay me .10 cents a day and actually pay than a site that will promise hundreds of dollars a day and postpone payment till you get tired of waiting and comment about it just to have your account froze. but you decide if playing at this site is worth the time with all the glitches and delayed payments.
Prize
Status as of march 24 2008
Prize Redemption 03/02/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 02/16/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 02/08/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 02/05/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 01/29/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 01/20/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 01/06/2008 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 12/15/2007 Circuit City ($100) Processing
Prize Redemption 12/06/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 11/25/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 11/15/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 11/05/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Processing
Prize Redemption 09/09/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Fulfilled
Prize Redemption 08/31/2007 Ecount Cash ($25) Fulfilled
From Netwinner Compliance Mon Mar 24 10:41:24 2008
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:41:24 -0400
To: thetruepoolgod@yahoo.com
From: “Netwinner Compliance” Add Mobile Alert
Subject: NetWinner.com Account Termination
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Dear NetWinner.com participant,
A recent review of your account activity has determined that you or
someone
using your unique NetWinner.com username is in violation of our terms
of service
to which you agreed when you registered to play. Our terms of service
can be
found here: http://www.netwinner.com/tos.
As a result, your account has been terminated and all points and prizes
for this
account are now forfeited. We occasionally have to implement these
measures in
efforts to keep NetWinner.com fun and fair for all.
Sincerely,
Compliance Department | NetWinner.com
honestly i have not stated anything false. every comment i have made on this site are to the best of my knowledge true. the problems started when my self and one of the forum mods had a disagreement about feeding children i did send a email to mjp about this and as you can see from this email he must have gotten it as he stated here and chose to over look the complaint.
From mike.paluch@netwinner.com Fri Nov 9 18:12:13 2007
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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 21:12:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: warning
From: mike.paluch@netwinner.com Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: “carlton bragg”
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Mr. Bragg,
I have seen some of your behavior and it is not appropriate. It is
also
not a super big deal at this point.
I have no problem with removing the restrictions, but you have to
behave
more civilly. I did get one mail from you about this, but I am very
busy.
I have faith in womanfish, but I am fair, and I will listen to all
sides.
Just steer clear of her and treat everybody with respect for now. I
dont
have time to micro manage the community so I need my volunteer team to
keep things running.
The chat ban and profile suspension are small potatos. I am willing to
remove these if your actions warrant it. On the other side of the
coin,
the next step is freezing the entire Netwinner account. I never like
banning players. Let’s hope I do not have to do it here.
Feel free to contact me as needed.
mike
> hi
> first let me say i have in no way caused any problem. i have
however 4
> times tried to contact someone about the treatment from womanfish one
of
> the mods. i have been called a troll by her and i have had friends
tell
> me how when i have left the chat she has made various derogatory
> comments about me. i have tried various time to bring this treatment
to
> personell/admin/support but instead of trying to fix the problem i am
> threaten with removal from the site how is that fair. i do not even
talk
> to her anymore because it seems no matter what i say she has a nasty
> comment to make to me. i give up i will leave the chat willingly and
> will be more than happy to no longer use the community if the
continues
> attacks will be allowed to continue on the mods side
>
> mike.paluch@netwinner.com wrote:
> Carlton (carlton123),
>
> Due to your behavior on the Netwinner Community and your treatment of
the
> volunteer players, I have banned you from the chat, suspended your
profile
> and I will ban you from the site if I have another problem.
>
> Email me if you have any questions.
>
> Thank you.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
i can say as i did before up until the site started the ecount payments i did get my prizes ( late but i did get them ) now after that it took me well over 120 days to receive my first 2 ecount redemptions. ( at the time i cashed in the t.o.s was 60 days) that is 2x the stated amount of time for fulfillment. on feb 22 2008 the t.o.s was updated to a 90 day fulfillment which the site still could not abide by. so as you can see there is no comment that is false. i have sent in a complaint to the better business about this however i am sure nothing will come of it.
The BBB reports on businesses, both accredited and non-accredited. If an organization is a BBB Accredited business, it is stated in this report
BBB Definition:
report – A summary of activity reflected in a company’s BBB file. Includes basic business background, BBB Accreditation information, and BBB complaint activity over the previous three years. Also reports may include any known government actions, advertising issues or other information that results from activity conducted by the BBB.
.
Name: Netwinner LLC
Phone: (704) 347-8850
Address: 1427 South Blvd Ste 200
Charlotte, NC 28203-4261
Website: http://www.netwinner.com
Original Business Start Date: June 2006
Principal: Mr. S. Allen Dean, President & COO
Customer Contact: Mr. S. Allen Dean, President & COO
Entity: Limited Liability Corporation
Incorporated: April 2006, NC
Employees: 3
TOB Classification: Internet Gaming
BBB Accreditation: This organization is not a BBB Accredited business.
Customer Experience
Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record
BBB Definition:
unsatisfactory record – A company has an “unsatisfactory business performance record” with the BBB is based on the experiences reflected in BBB files. This file condition results when the company has failed to resolve or respond to complaints, repeatedly failed to respond or resolve issues in a timely manner, failed to resolve the underlying issues for a pattern
BBB Definition:
pattern – More than 2 complaints involving the same allegations usually within 12 months that are significant in relation to the company’s size and volume of business.
of complaints, failed to honor their commitment to mediate or arbitrate disputes or honor mediated agreements or arbitrated decisions, failed to substantiate, modify or discontinue false advertising claims that are challenged by the BBB, or failed to discontinue unauthorized use of the BBB name and logo, a Federally protected trademark.
with the BBB due to failure to respond to two or more complaints. However the business has resolved
BBB Definition:
resolved – The company resolved the complaint issues.
most complaints presented by the bureau.
When considering complaint information, please take into account the company’s size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm’s responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.
The BBB processed a total of 17 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.Of the total of 17 complaints closed in 36 months, 17 were closed in the last year.
I happen to have read some of the posts that you, carlton had made on the forums and you were absolutely horrible to anyone who tried to help. The moderators there are VOLUNTEERS and do not deserve the treatment they have received from you, carlton. We can only pass on the information we receive and that was not enough to make you happy. Very funny that you complain about not getting paid then say in the next sentence that you have received $125. I don’t care if it is only 25% of what your won, it is still being paid and if you would keep your mouth shut and quit being a dick, you might have got the rest of it. You have $75 that would have been (and for all I know still is) sent RIGHT NOW!! Will you still be complaining if you get it? Probably because you are just a very unhappy person and nothing will make you feel good. What I would like to see is you come back an say you are sorry for all the hurtful comments you have made. Then you might be on the road to redeem yourself.
Netwinner Addict said:
I happen to have read some of the posts that you, carlton had made on the forums and you were absolutely horrible to anyone who tried to help. The moderators there are VOLUNTEERS and do not deserve the treatment they have received from you, carlton. We can only pass on the information we receive and that was not enough to make you happy. Very funny that you complain about not getting paid then say in the next sentence that you have received $125. I don’t care if it is only 25% of what your won, it is still being paid and if you would keep your mouth shut and quit being a dick, you might have got the rest of it. You have $75 that would have been (and for all I know still is) sent RIGHT NOW!! Will you still be complaining if you get it? Probably because you are just a very unhappy person and nothing will make you feel good. What I would like to see is you come back an say you are sorry for all the hurtful comments you have made. Then you might be on the road to redeem yourself.
no i am honest if i were to recieve any other amount i would post that fact as well. see it is no problem for me to be honest. i had no problem stateing from a email that i could have been a problem however had you read the entire statement above you would see that i had tried to bring a problem to the attention of mike. he himself admitted to getting at least 1 out of 4. but chose to ignore it. and i can tell from your post that you are more than likly a mod.as per the comment you made from above ” We can only pass on the information we receive and that was not enough to make you happy.”
i have been told that they are only now sending out prizes from october in another email from mike however i could find both on netwinner site as well as on another site people stateing that they have received prizes from mid to late november. so if you ewant to defend netwinner that is your right and i will not fault you for your opinion however i also have the right to express my thoughts. as i stated previously i have not made4 any false statements and i would not say i am sorry for speaking the truth. so as for getting my account back NO THANK YOU. and as per not being happy i am delerious knowing that aperently someone at netwinner is so worried that they are sending mods here to defend them.
carlton123, Please stop lying about us. Even the members have read your lies and rants and told you that you are wrong. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of, I have it myself. There are treatments.
To the rest,
I gave Carlton every chance in the book. He post my emails and then lies about what they say. I say we just sent out October prizes, he says i said we have not. We pay him, he says we have not. Go to out forum. We are slow getting out prizes now, but we are catching up. the players report what they receive and what they do not. All i ask is that you read the facts and ignore the BS. I only Banned Carlton today after abusing our volunteer players for months. I can only take so much. We welcome all players to our games and to our forums and blogs. we do not ask that you promote us, only that you treat other players civilly and share the truth about us.
ok mike you state that i lied please inform myself and the rest what i lied about. se that is the reason i posted the full emails from you. i have not stated anything false. as for payment i did state above that i was paid $125 out of $500. i stated that prior to going to ecount i had gotten money all be it late but i did get it. and as for you banning me for what i said on the forums we both know that is also false as stated in this email from you threatening to cancel my account if i did not take down my posts
From Mike paluch Mon Mar 24 09:42:02 2008
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Carlton,
You should seek professional help.
I was going to send you an update about your prizes but I see you have been busy.
If you do not stop slandering and committing liable against Netwinner, our players and our staff I will ban you from the the site. I will give you until the end of the day to remove all of the slanderous and libelous content you have posted around the net. If it remains at 5pm EST, your account will be terminated. I will may also be taking additional actions related to your malicious actions.
mike
see mike there is one thing that yourself fail to understand and that is that not everyone is afraid to speak out and tell it like it is. i understand that you work for netwinner and that is fine. but being that you yourself are suppose to be in charge in the forums and chat i would think that had a member brought up some mistreatment about a mod i think i would of looked into it. but you would not. i understand that the mods do not have answers to all the questions but i also know that perhaps i was hateful at sometimes but it was honest i ask question after question and IF i got a answer it would be the same answer i got 2-3 weeks before. one thing netwinner in whole fails to understand and that is you can have all the advertisements in the world but unless you have members to click or to watch them ads they are useless. i really do not want to remain a netwinner player because3 of the treatment from you as well as other mods. i have no problem with not getting the money that was owed to me because that little act proves what i said and what many other people has stated through-out the net. i know me myself i referred obout 20 people and out of those people not one of them still play at the site. and guess what some of them stopped not because of what they heard but because of their first hand knowledge of the site. at some point mr goldberg may sit down and wonder why the site is losing so many players and hopefully will look back and realize that one of the biggest problems is that he hired a person off another site and see that there has to be some respect for the people that make netwinner successful and them people are not the mods they are the players. therefore i will not apologize for my honest opinion and the stated facts. i have no regrets about my earlier post. i did not post this in malice i posted this to inform others what they could expect. you stated that i was banned today for post i posted on the netwinner forums. i had not been in there for 2 days so again a false statement. i would hope that if you are going to try and make netwinner look better that you would be man enough and admit that you yourself along with others at netwinner have not handled certain aspects of fulfillment in the best way.so you go ahead and make all the statements that you want i stand by everything i have stated. others that have been to the site know that my statements are true as well from personal knowledge. so as i stated before anyone thinking about netwinner. i will not say do not join i would only say make a informed decision. each person has to decide for him or herself if that site has what they would want in a game site.
The company and I have admitted we are not perfect and we make mistakes many times. I do not mind saying that again here. I cannot allow nonconstructive, continuous, disrupting behavior from any player. It ruins the player experience and wastes staff time. We have enough to do.
I wish you the best in whatever you do. Good luck.
OMG! I am going to take the Netwinner banner off my site. You know, I should have known all those months ago when I joined and never got a confirmation email from NW, never got a response from my email to get confirmed that this was a site I didn’t want to be associated with at all EVER.
If I was the owner of Netwinner I would get rid of the mods based on what I have read in these comments. They are as unprofessional as they come. Customer service is a figment of their imagination and the folks that use Netwinner are completely mistreated. I’ve always heard that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. From what I know about this site, my gut has always screamed at me that nothing good was going on there. I’ve read too many negative forum post all over the Internet since the very beginning. I posted the URL on my site as a courtesy to my members but it is coming down. I can’t lend even a smidgen of support to a site whose mods come to CompareRewards and continues to smear their adolescent and threatening comments on such a stellar site AND with the NW staff allowing it!
This is unbelieveable. When will Netwinner learn that customer service (even from volunteer mods) needs to be kind, non-threatening, professional and so much more? Even if you have someone that is acting fraudulently, misbehaving etc, you don’t go rabid on them in public OR private.
I can only believe that the mods are without scruples, no common sense, no training, don’t know how to behave themselves, have “little man” syndrome and have let their so-called power go to their heads based on my research. As a whole, Netwinner should be ashamed of their reputation and for allowing all of the problems to go on since day one. How old are those folks over there that own/run this site? This whole diatribe smacks of bullies on a school yard. My 4 & 6 year old grandchildren act better than the mods from what I have seen. WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE COMING OVER HERE AND THREATENING PEOPLE WHO POST ON YOUR SITE? If they are volunteer mods I rather doubt they are legally trained. If they are legally trained, why would they be mods? With the history of lack of communication from the staff to the mods I rather doubt they were told to make the remarks they have posted here. Are they practicing Freedom of Speech? If that is the case then each side gets to just keep on venting and saying what they like pretty much.
CompareRewards has a flawless reputation. Becky has done nothing but try to inform and communicate to those interested in the rewards community what to expect from all the various sites around the Internet. This is the first time I can ever recall wishing she had never interviewed or posted about a site.
My vote says pull ALL of this off of your site Becky. I don’t think it is worth the virtual space to house it. Netwinner isn’t deserving of your ability to promote and educate about their site. Besides, what can you say? You can’t say they pay on time. You can’t say they have great customer service. You can’t say that it is even a fun site with so much bickering. You can’t give folks the expectation that the site will even work correctly.
::::rolling eyes and shaking head::::::
I really think the NW mods should go play in their own backyard and cease posting on CR. It taints this site.
Ginger
I want to address all this above stated. I have kept my comments to myself on all this, as sometimes I see no sense in getting involved in a heated conversation. But, when I see a person state: “I can only believe that the mods are without scruples, no common sense, no training.”
I think this is quite enough. I tried to explain to carlton that his issue could not be resolved on the forum and he needed to contact compliance. I, also, told him the date we are aware the redemptions were up to. I, in noway, was using any so-called powers. It was called reasoning and understanding, which, I told him we do understand and frustrations get high sometimes when there is an account locked. But, again, we can not help him with that matter, yet…. it was a continuing effect that spilled over to others. He stated for us to ban him from the forums. I told him we do not wish to have to do this at all.
Maybe, you need to go research the thousands of people we (VOLUNTEERS) have helped. We are not forced to do this and this is something we take our time to do. We enjoy helping others and not just because they are upset we want to ban them. If we can resolve something that is exactly what we want to do. It does not always play out that way though.
And, just because there is one or two posters in here who are unhappy with Netwinner does not amount to the thousands who are happy and know things are not like they are said by some on here who did not have things go exactly as they wanted when they were TOLD who to contact.
So, sorry for having to come over here and post, but I do think a lot said should not have been especially since I am one of those volunteers. So, yes I am going to speak about this and defend being bashed in this manner when I have not even been in this. So, when you state ALL mods that includes me.
This does not make room to say moderators are how they have been stated in here not all moderators are ready to ban everyone who speaks, simply an untrue fact.
first i would like to apologize to comparerewards for the conflict that has spewed over into their site. i will discontinue posting any other remarks about netwinner site and let everyone judge for themselves. i will only post here again if by some act of GOD i happen to receive any other owed funds from the site. i want to wish everyone at netwinner the best of luck both players and mods alike.
It saddens me to see this kind of behavior. I’ve been playing at Netwinner almost since the beginning and have seen the good and the bad. I have to say that I still believe the concept is great and given time I think the site will be even better. Reading all the comments here I must say that I’ve many, many times interacted with the moderators, including mjp, and I have found them over all to be genuinely invested in making the site and especially the forum a fun and pleasant place to visit. Perhaps the removal of the few who seem incapable of dealing with people in a quiet and respectful manner is something Netwinner should consider. It seems counterproductive to let this bad behavior continue. As for me, I’m staying with the site and loving it.
Funny, Netwinners terms have changed from 30 days to 60 days to 90 days and now there is no set time in which prizes will be awarded. I have waited now 120 days for $125 and there is no set time in which I will get it. How many time are they allowed to change their
‘terms’??
make sure if you file a complaint with the BBB that you check every few days. i have been waiting on a response and never got one so today i went to look to see what was going on and this is what i found. now i want you all to keep in mind i have had no conversation with anyone at netwinner. therefore someone made a false statement to the BBB i wonder if you can find out who that was.
Activity
Date
Activity
Description
05/01/2008 More info received from the consumer hi
i was wondering why this has been considered resolved? i have not received the prizes that i have earned and cashed out for. i am unsure how it can be considered resolved under these circumstances. could someone please explain how this was resolved? i am in the dark because i still have not gotten satisfaction . in this companies t.o.s it stated 60 days then 90 days and now it is whenever they get around to it. i have waited over 6 months for satisfaction and when i spook out i got my account closed . my account has been reopened but still not fulfilled. please reopen this and find out what is going on.
04/28/2008 Case closed – ASSUMED RESOLVED
04/28/2008 Inform Business – Case Closed ASSUMED RESOLVED
04/28/2008 No Consumer Response- Assumed Resolved with Letter
04/15/2008 Forward Business response to Consumer
04/15/2008 Receive Business Response Thank you for your inquiry. According to our terms of service, all other winnings are usually paid within ninety (90) days of verification. In some cases, processing delays, verifications, fraud reviews, or delays from unforeseen business events may delay payments beyond ninety (90) days.
Netwinner and Mr. Bragg were able to speak regarding this issue.
04/15/2008 Final Notice to Company- Via Mail/Fax
04/15/2008 No Response received from Business on 2nd Notice
04/07/2008 Reminder of Dispute to Business
04/07/2008 Consumer – Have You Heard From the Company
04/07/2008 No response to first notice to business
03/24/2008 Notify Business of Dispute
03/24/2008 Send Acknowledgement to Consumer
03/24/2008 Case Reviewed by BBB
03/24/2008 Case Received by BBB
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Case Description: hi
i joined this site some 11-12 months ago. since that time i have had nothing but problems receiving my… (More) hi
i joined this site some 11-12 months ago. since that time i have had nothing but problems receiving my moneys from the company. now after waiting almost 5 months for delivery of over $300 dollars i am told that my account has been deleted because i made inqurys on other site as well as made statements about the customer service that i have received from this site. up to this point i have followed the sites ters of service and have numerous times requested info on my monies. i have been threatened with termination on numerous dates and have reached my boiling point. after trying to contact the site on the phone and by email and only getting auto response and answering machine i decided to go this route. (Less)
Category: Delivery Issues
Case opened date: 03/24/2008
Case closed date: 04/28/2008
Desired Resolution: i would think that since i played on this site and honestly won the monies that i won that the… (More)
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